• archive1: 19:40, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC) – 18:26, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• archive2: – 04:10, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
• archive3: – 08:23, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• archive4: – 09:31, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• archive5: – 2:05, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

size matters?

this is ridiculous. The balance of usefulness to annoyance of this image is tilted so much towards annoyance that it's simply reckless to claim it should be as big as possible. I'm sorry but I cannot believe that you defend this disruptive and probably copyvio'd image in all honesty. If we cannot get rid of it if some people are so much in love with it, or with getting their way, reducing its size is the least we can do to reduce its potential for abuse. dab (ᛏ) 11:13, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Every single one of your arguments above seems to be predicated on the assumption that the picture is innately offensive, whereas a large minority of editors have voted it suitable for inline display. You also argue that the disruptive effect can be mitigated by taking a step that would reduce the utility of the image. This is unacceptable for any encyclopedic image. We have a thumbnail facility in the image tag for performing the task of reducing the size, if and when it is needed. The way to tackle abuse of Wikipedia is to stop the abusers, not remove information from the website. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:30, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you're annoyed enough to be making what could be interpreted as threats to vandalize threats to degrade the picture quality repeatedly. The fact that vandals choose a picture of a chap sucking his penis in preference to an image of the Codex Argenteus is presumably because they think the former would be more annoying. But a less annoying picture is not necessarily more encyclopedic, and vice versa. Both the Codex and Autofellatio guy would be unencyclopedic intrusions in almost all articles in the encyclopedia. A more detailed picture of autofellatio, or anything else, is of more use to the user than a less detailed one, and can be resized for display using the controls provided. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:56, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

PS: The "suck-a-cock" vandal is osmanoglou, who has been vandalizing articles and user pages related to Nagorno-Karabakh, Safavids and the like. I'm preparing evidence in the related arbcom case. Ignore him. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 12:03, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry for using the term vandalism inappropriately. I withdraw and apologise. I happen to disagree strongly with Jimbo's opinion, and he has made it plain that he wishes the community to reach its own decision on this image. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 12:07, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, dab. --LIGerasimova 13:52, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well enough's enough. I have decided to let the vandal have his head for now. If his mess gets too bad (ie he goes after article space rather than just vandalizing user space) someone else will clean up the mess and block him. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 19:01, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Map in Single-origin hypothesis

1) It would be good to have a key to the blue letters for the various paths of migration.

2) The 'X' path seems strange in that it is double headed. Perhaps if it were single headed away from Europe, it would fit the Solutrean migration into N. America... (see Clovis) Duncan.france 22:54, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

What vandalism

I have not commited any vandalism. --Ernest Ghana 13:26, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

copyright

Hi. I want to use the files Image:IE0500BP.png, Image:IE1500BP.png, Image:IE2500BP.png, Image:IE3500BP.png, Image:IE4500BP.png, Image:IE5500BP.png on my website under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Licence. I need to contact the copyright owners of these files. Copyright owners are usually the creators and/or the employers of a work. I also want to use the file Image:IE countries.png on my website under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Licence. You are not the initial person who uploaded this pic, but you have modified it under the GFDL. Please contact me using my talk page and tell me whether you would agree using your modified version of the IE countries pic under the CC-By-SA-2 licence. Please also tell me whether I you are the copyright owner of the IExxxxBP series of pics and whether you grant me permission to use them under the CC-By-SA-2 licence. If you can please edit my talk page twice, one time to grant me permission for the IExxxxBP series (and if you can please include links to the files you grant me permission for) and edit my talk page another one time to grant me another permission for your modification to the IE countries pic (I have also contacted the initial uploader of that pic). NSK 17:38, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Admin?

I'm embarrassed to say that I seem to have chalked up well over a thousand edits a month since I registered (I suppose that I have an obsessive personality...). I think though, to be honest, that I ought to spend some more time getting the hang of Wikipedia before I even think of trying to become an admin. Every time I think that I'm on top of things, something else happens that lets me know that I'm still very much a 'newbie'. Thanks for the thought, though; I might get back to you some time. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 19:36, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks — yes, a month or two (or three) and I might just feel that what I know isn't completely dwarfed by what I don't. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 19:53, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Admin for BM

Dieter: about a week ago Wile E Heresiarch offered to nominate me then thought better of it because he felt I didn't have enough edits in article space (versus Talk and Wikipedia) to be sure of getting through RFA, although he said he would vote for me if someone else nominated me. I was a bit surprised by this, since out of more than 3000 edits, I reckon a quarter to a third are in article space. (I haven't counted.) dbenndbenn also offered, but when I asked him if he thought the chances were good, he suggested I wait a few weeks and help out on VfD/Old meanwhile, given how fickle RFA is. So, that is what I have been doing. I very much appreciate your offer, but I think it is best to wait. I'm in no big rush to be an admin. Despite the theory of it, I think most people want it more for the honor, recognition, etc, that comes with it. I suppose I will appreciate those aspects, too, when I eventually get it. But the only thing anyone really needs it for is to be able to do work that is fairly thankless, and there is already plenty of that to be done that doesn't require admin priveleges. My style isn't being cramped by not being an admin. I get to pontificate as much as I want without it, and I don't think anyone is going to take my B.S. any more seriously if I'm an admin. I appreciate the thought, though. Cheers, Brian. (BM)

I'm sorry but this project doesn't really appreciate minority opinions. Bye--198 07:54, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

My adminship

Thank you for voting for me for adminship. I appreciate the confidence you showed in me. — Knowledge Seeker দ 08:15, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Let me second that, Dieter! Many thanks for your support and kind words. Best regards, — mark ✎ 20:21, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Diacritics

Thank you for fixing the retroflex diacritics on the Tocharian languages page! Do you know where I can find more of these codes? Meursault2004 12:37, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I might be interested in typing cognate words for IE languages, but the problem is I am in fact not an Indo-Europeanist. My major is Old-Javanese literature. Javanese is an Austronesian language. Via O.J. literature, I come in contact with Sanskrit, Hinduism and Buddhism. There are plenty of Sanskrit loans in Indonesian languages. I am aware of the fact that the Tocharian table is only to give an impression for the vocabulary. That is why I added the Sanskrit words, as Skt is a IE language which has had an impact on Tocharian languages. But Skt is a satem language unlike Tocharian. Meursault2004 14:41, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Crank/Cranky

Oh, a minor note about English usage - "cranky" means "someone who is irritable" (it's often used of small children who need a nap). So "cranky" does not mean "has the characteristics of a crank". Not sure what the etymology of the two is, but they may have different roots. Noel (talk) 15:43, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Autofellatio.jpg

(Crossposted from my talk page in case you're not watching it)
Dab, parhaps you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying case closed about the copyvio discussion, but I was saying that the issues raised are no more urgent than ones already raised. Thus deleting it until we find out it's not a copyvio seems quite absurd. As I believe AllyUnion may have been alluding to, proving its GFDL status may be incredibly hard ... for example, if we can't get in touch with the webmasters of the other sites.

The picture is not the same. Perhaps it's telling that this different, but similar, image has been found on multiple sites, yet our image has not been. I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that the creator of these images sold one to porn sites and released one (the more clinical of the two IMHO, since he's not looking at the camera) under GFDL for wikipedia.

In any case, this is not news. Last time Tony Sidaway emailed the webmaster of the site inqiring about the copyright status of the picture and whether they claimed the rights to ours. I left a note on Tony's talk page inquiring about that and asking him to weigh in on the discussion at WP:CP.

So your insistence on due diligence is correct, and the image obviously should be deleted if it's a copyvio, but I do not believe I was wrong in uploading the picture again. There are plenty of images on wikipedia with similarly nebulous copyright status'. In lieu of your raving objections to the image on other grounds, I am disappointed that you took it upon yourself to delete the image and be done with it – and I do not mean to be meanspirited, but your comments were a bit unsettling: "it seems the case will now be decided on a technicality, copyvio." ... "I'm glad if that rids us of the image..."

Thus I'm going to reupload the image while continuing the inquiry into its copyright status. I ask that, because of your involvement, you have another admin delete it (if it is ever found out to be a copyvio) as a show of good faith. I hope we can work this out to the betterment of wikipedia.

Best, [[User:Limeheadnyc|]] 18:16, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hi again. I reverted your image tag at Autofellatio.jpg. There is, after all, a copyright dispute tag above the GFDL tag, and the uploader provided the GFDL tag. I think that gives an adequate picture of the status of the image. Cheers, TIMBO (T A L K) 15:48, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank You! from Carbonite

Thank you for supporting my RfA. I very much appreciate your confidence in me. Please let me know if you see something I should (or shouldn't) be doing as an admin. Regards, Patrick. Carbonite | Talk 13:45, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Porn

If you want to appeal to the board or Jimbo over the auto-fellation image I will happily support you, as a victim of this vandalism. Let me know if I can help. --SqueakBox 16:46, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

I wonder why you don't go and slap a copyvio on it? Especially as I know how strongly you feel about it. I am sure it is a copyvio from a paying site. While this makes it hard to find (impossible except through subscribing) if my surmise is true wikipedia are robbing the people who do hold the copyright on what is obviously quite a valuable photo, and (again if true) werre they to find out they could and probably would sue wikipedia, with messy publicity etc. Why are wikipedia exposing themselves to this added danger on a photo that noone knows where it came from. Why is it that photos from an unknown source are automatically considered not to be copyvio. I am not even sure this is wikipedia policy. I believe but don't know that a suspicion of copyvio is enough to get it put up and reviewed as a podssible copyvio. Just a thought, --SqueakBox 15:46, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

thanks

thank you for re-licensing the images! your work is fabulous and I used it for educational purposes in my article The common Indoeuropean heritage of Welsh and Hindi. If you think this article is informative and contains useful encyclopedic information, I would be grateful if you could add it as an external link to a relevant Wikipedia page. NSK 06:49, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your support on WP:RFA. – ABCD 15:54, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Once again, thanks. – ABCD 02:53, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Druidry (?) in Anatolian Galatia

I'm reading too much into Strabo, reported (erm, by me) in Wikipedia: "...conformably to Gaulish custom, each tribe was divided into cantons, each governed by a chief ('tetrarch') of its own with a judge under him, whose powers were unlimited except in cases of murder, which were tried before a council of 300 drawn from the twelve cantons and meeting at a holy place, twenty miles southwest of Ancyra, which was likely to have been a sacred oak grove, for it was called 'Drynemeton' the "temple of the oaks" drys + nemed "temple". Of course there's not a druid hiding behind every oak: cf Dodona, dryad etc. --Wetman 13:29, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank you

Hey Dieter, thanks for voting for me in my adminship nomination. I really appreciate your support. Best, SlimVirgin 02:59, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

Follow-up to your answer

Can you have a look at this follow-up question to your answer? Thanks. --

Swedish phonology dispute

Bishonen told me you were good at Swedish linguistics, so I'm wondering if could could have a look at the talkpages of rikssvenska, Swedish phonology and Swedish language. I sense a dispute brewing with Tuomas and Johan Magnus that could get quite ugly unless we get some good comments from a third party. Peter Isotalo 00:58, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)

Seconded! Also listed at RfC (by me):

• Talk:Rikssvenska, Talk:Swedish language, Talk:Swedish phonology, Talk:Voiceless dorso-palatal velar fricative, and most probably soon in more related articles, souring relations between contributors with conflicting attitudes and personalities (likely related, among other things, to the status of Finland-Swedish and the Mandatory Swedish education in Finland)

--Johan Magnus 08:34, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I redefined it a tad. The dispute seems to be mostly about what "Standard Swedish" should be. And I don't think it's wise to speculate about future conflict either. I have no intention to discuss the status of Mandatory Swedish myself. Peter Isotalo 10:23, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)

That's fine, but that has been an article with recurrent dispute problems and the same type of sentiments behind. Johan Magnus 10:45, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

dab, are you sure you don't know anyone with knowledge of Swedish? Inter is attempting to mediate right now, but it would be nice to have someone who knows the subject to have a look at it. And it would be nice to have more help to work on Swedish phonology later. Peter Isotalo 22:29, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

Pederasty

I have re-added pederasty to the ancient Greece article. During a visit to that page I noticed you deleted it and added (“oh, and ffs don't put "pederastry" as a "see also" for "Ancient Greece", that's ridiculous.)”. I can assure you it is not ridiculous as I have fully researched such subjects in-depth. Pederasty was an integral part of the religious beliefs as well as the society of the Greeks. Even MSN Encarta encyclopedia states so. I can provide innumerable sources including many texts of the ancient world asserting so. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks and have a nice day, I know perhaps this is just a misunderstanding as your additions are in good-faith. Apollomelos 02:10, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ancient Greek studies have historically omitted references to the widespread practice of homosexuality. In 1910 a book called Maurice by E. M. Foster noted Cambridge professors employing “Omit: a reference to the unspeakable vice of the Greeks.” Four decades later in the 1940s: “This aspect of Greek morals is an extraordinary one, into which, for the sake of our equanimity, it is unprofitable to pry too closely”, by H. Michell. It would not be until 1978 when an English book on Greek homosexuality was first in the public realm.

Homosexual love was prevalent throughout all aspects of ancient Greece. Many believe the first recorded appearance of it was in the Iliad (800 BC). The intentions of the Iliad have been a subject of much debate. An abundance of evidence exists that by the beginning of the Hellenistic era (480 BC) the Iliad’s heroes Achilles and Patroclus were icons of male homosexuality. Poets write of male love from the earliest eras to the end of the Hellenistic era. Five philosophical dialogues debate its ethical implications. Notable scholars such as Plato, Xenophon, Plutarch, and pseudo-Lucian would discuss the topic. Tragedies on the theme became very popular. Aristophanes made comical theater about sexual relationships between males. Vases portray numerous homoerotic depictions with hundreds of inscriptions celebrating the love of young men. Famous politicians, warriors, artists, and writers would enjoy these relationships. These relationships held an honored place in their culture from at least 600 BC to 400 AD. (Dialogues)

Homosexuality was also reflected in Greek religion. Myths provide more than fifty examples of young men who were the lovers of gods (Sergent). Poets and traditions ascribe Zeus, Poseidon, Apollo, Hercules, Dionysus, Hermes, and Pan to such love. All the main gods of the pantheon except Ares had these relationships. The famous poets Sappho, Alcaeus, Ibycus, Anacreon, Theognis, and Pindar all wrote of same-sex love. Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides made plays on the subject. Political leaders Solon, Peisistratus, Hippias, Hipparchus, Themistocles, Aristides, Critias, Demosthenes, and Aeschines of Athens; Pausanias, Lysander, and Agesilaus of Sparta; Polycrates of Samos; Hieron and Agathocles of Syracuse; Epaminondas and Pelopidas of Thebes; and Archelaus, Philip II, and Alexander of Macedon were recorded to have had same-sex love. Socrates, Plato, and Xenophon described the inspirational powers of love between men though decrying its physical expression. Upon the death of Plato the presidency of the Academy passed from lover to lover. Of the Stoics, Chrysippus, Cleanthes, and Zeno fell in love with young men. The artist Phidias even memorialized his lover Pantarces in marble. During the Hellenistic era (332 BC – 400 AD) Plutarch, Athenaeus, and Aelian traced the history of Greek homosexuality to its beginning.

Throughout these records, male relationships were represented with honor, though there were always a few skeptics. But for the vast majority of ancient historians for a man to have not had a young man for a love presented a deficiency in character. Plato wrote of one such speech by Phaedrus in the Symposium:

• For I know not any greater blessing to a young man who is beginning in life than a virtuous lover, or to a lover than a beloved youth. For the principle, I say, neither kindred, nor honor, nor wealth, nor any motive is able to implant so well as love. Of what am I speaking? Of the sense of honor and dishonor, without which neither states nor individuals ever do any good or great work… And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonor and emulating one another in honor; and it is scarcely an exaggeration to say that when fighting at each other’s side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world.

Phaedrus’ belief in an army of lovers would be realized in the Sacred Band of Thebes. His views were common in their society from the earliest of Greek history to the eventual coming of Christianity. The institution of pederasty was held sacred. When Aeschines’ gave a speech on the topic to jurors in Athens composed of all classes they respectfully honored it. Belief in ideals sprouted from same-sex love became a central part of the ancient Greeks.

Regarding your childlove comment - an encyclopedia is no place to dicate what is normal or not, we present information not editorials, but I do appreciate your skepticism because it allows me to decipher where possible holes are in the articles such as Aristophanes. I hope you continue reviewing them so I can address them. Apollomelos 08:14, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I hate to waste time over a petty detail - especialy as pederasty is mentioned well enough in the article already, but in what regards the relative importance of pederasty in Greek culture, I was struck a while ago to hear that Pausanias claims three institutions to characterize Greek culture: the Olympic games, the Eleusinian mysteries, and pederasty. (That's what led me to add those links yesterday upon noticing that Apollomelos had restored Pederasty to the list, by the way.) As for the equation of pederasty with child love politics, I think it is a digression in this case. Haiduc 13:30, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I am still digging for the Pausanias quote. By the way, another note: Your comments on "prevalence" sent me to the dictionary. Though the Latin usage supports your interpretation, the Webster defines it as "frequent occurrence; general or widespread acceptance, usage or dissemination;" all of which describe accurately the integration of pederasty into Greek culture, as I understand it. This re. your comment on the Pederasty article. It was certainly never my intention to suggest it was more widespread then heterosexual relations. Another thought: what do you make of Thetis comment to Achilles that "it is a fine thing to sleep with women too." (Ill. 24.158)? Regards, Haiduc 14:18, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hijra

Also, I have a dispute on the Hijras article. If you have the time feel free to give an opinion on its talk page. Any additional input is welcome on this hard to classify subject. Apollomelos 08:25, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Adminship

A little while ago you suggested that I should consider being nominated for adminship; I was reluctant then, and to be honest I still have misgivings — but a couple more people have made the same suggestion, and I've begun to think that it might be a reasonable idea after all. If you're still willing to nominate me, I'd be grateful. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:30, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Many thanks. Now the nail biting begins. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:41, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Diacritics again...

Sorry to spam you about this tiresome issue, but Philip Baird Shearer is at it again at Talk:Úbeda and Úbeda, not only in the matter of moving the article to Ubeda, but also adding interwiki-links (to the Spanish Wikipedia) to personal names in the actual article text, instead of wikifying/redlinking a couple of Spanish authors born in the town. I am not sure what the point of that is. / Tupsharru 15:13, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Einangsteinen

• Halló Dbachmann! Danke für die Nachricht! Den Kommentar hatte ich nicht gemerkt, da ich manchmal nur selten bei commons: vorbeischaue.
• Zu den Bildern: Es war bereits spät abends als ich ankam und die Lichtverhältnisse nicht besonderst toll. Ich hatte zwar kein Stativ aber ein lichtstarkes Minolta 50mm 1:1,4 (22) Objektiv. Keines der Bilder wurde wissentlich gespiegelt. Vielleicht kannst Du mit einem Bildverarbeitungsprogramm feststellen, wie die Runen "laufen". Lass es mich bitte anschließend wissen. Gruß aus München Gangleri | [1]. Usually anon edits of a user's page I err on the side of caution and delete. But if it was a real Mishkin edit, I assume he/she can redo the edit. Thanks. Fuzheado | Talk 23:10, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Celts in pre-Roman Sicily"

Hi Dab, I'm looking to erase all claims posted by who knows who in the Sicilian language article that Celtic groups were living in Pre-Roman Sicily. Have you ever heard of this idea? Decius 14:19, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I reduced the earlier claims (which you'll see in the history) to one sentence mentioning possible Celtic pre-Roman presence in Sicily, but if there's nothing to it, even that one sentence shouldn't remain. Decius 14:22, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Also, the whole article is silly because it is mostly a History Of ancient Sicily (!), not a discussion of the language ... historical events and language-developments are closely connected, but they should've summarized this in another way. Decius 14:25, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Okay, then there is something to it. :) Though they should've explained the details. The article looks like it's been an untouched mess for months. Decius 14:31, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Exhibit B: Georgiev & Macedonian

Interesting. According to Vladimir Georgiev, there are other fundamental IE sound-differences between Macedonian and Greek: [2]. See Section 5, entitled "The Macedonian region". In the field of Paleo-Balkan languages, Georgiev is one of the heavyweight authorities, though he's not always free of errors by any means. Georgiev seems also to have considered Macedonian to have been a separate language genetically related to Greek, though he hesitates to be explicit. Decius 18:08, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for nominating me and supporting my adminship — I vow to use my super powers (my mop and bucket, I mean) for good not evil. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:06, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you, dab, for the wonderful gesture. I greatly appreciate it. Please see my response to it (which I am writing now) on my talk page. And thank you, Mel, for helping to bring good people together, by virtue of your (gullible) presence alone! ;)

Cordially & sincerely yours,

El_C 10:52, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Davos photograph

Excuse me, just in case you would not follow the debate, there is a discussion going on about the image Image:Davos Switzerland G8 Summit.jpg on which you wrote the caption

Anti-Globalization protest, WEF (not G8, as suggested by filename), Davos, January 2003. Protesters wearing masks of world leaders exhibit primeval behaviour, Donald Rumsfeld's character is wearing a Sheriff badge, alluding to militant "police actions" of U.S. foreign policy. They carry about with them a golden calf stuffed with money, representing rouge capitalism or the globalized economy.

Can I inquire what makes you think of a Sheriff badge rather than a star of David ? (due to the atmosphere of the debate, I feel it necessary to mention that this is a honnest question :p ). Thank you very much in advance ! Rama 05:32, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks on my RFA

Thank you Dbachmann; I appreciate your vote on my recent RFA. I'll do my best to use the admin powers wisely and well. Happy editing! Antandrus 00:52, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Map at Celts

Hi Dab, I modified the celtic map according to Powell's the Celts (1991). I hope that you don't mind.--Wiglaf 13:40, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think the mouths of the Danube should not be painted celtic, and the celtiberian territory is not contiguous with the gallic in some maps I have seen. The territory in Asia minor is an unshapely blur, and should maybe be removed altogether (I have no idea how they were distributed there, or if there was even any "celtic territory" at all).

At the moment, I am checking a very detailed chronological map in Nationalencyklopedin. In this map the Celtiberic map is not contiguous with the Gallic at all. There's quite a distance. The area in Asia Minor is similar to yours but only by the date 200BC. There are many small differences. I think it could be fun to draw some maps based on theirs. If you have a blank map at hands, I could try to draw some maps and then you can say what you think about them.--Wiglaf 19:46, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What about two maps? One map showing their geographic spread 800-400BC and one 200BC? (I am still sorry I did not ask you before modifying it. In fact the page did not show who had made it, and I did not bother to check the page history at Celt until afterwards).--Wiglaf 20:03, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I got the blank map from [3].

I am unable to find such a map on that site. I'll see what I can improvise. But it will take a while.--Wiglaf 21:06, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK, thanks! I now understand that you've done a tremendous job with the flattened map :). If you want to send me it, I'd be very grateful for that version.--Wiglaf 07:01, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Dab, you're a great asset to Wikipedia.--Wiglaf 07:27, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Chronology of the Ancient Near East

Try a move to bottom - with a condensed version at top. See comment on changes. -=SV= 23:29, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Chronology of the Ancient Near East: I had made some changes, largely with an eye toward merging elements from the History of Iraq, History of Syria, History of Babylon Chronology of Babylonia and Assyria, and Chronological systems of Babylonia and Assyria. I may have confused the notion of chronology, history, and timeline, but please see article's recent changes, and tell me if that is not a reasonable scope for the article. -SV|t|th 18:48, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Maps

Hi Dab, I have made three maps for Celt at User:Wiglaf/maps. Green is La Tène culture. Yellow means gradual infiltration by La Tène. Red means Celtiberic influence. They are based on the map in Nationalencyklopedin. What do you think?--Wiglaf 21:26, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

does the Nationalencyklopedin really tell you that La-Tene == Proto-Celtic?? 5th century is much too late for that (and I said so in Celt). Isn't the original La Tene area a bit large? In any case it seems larger than my yellow blob.

Well, no. I think it only wants to show the spread of the La Tène culture at a certain time. Perhaps we should work on one map for every second century or so.--Wiglaf 14:07, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Insular celtic and Lepontian have the same colour? Were they both 'infiltrated by La Tene'?

Yes, according to my source.--Wiglaf 14:07, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Maybe I'm confused because it is a purely archaeological map that shows the distribution of the La Tene style. That is of course not equivalent with the distribution of "the Celts".

Yes, and that is the problem with the Celts. The greatest problem with tracing population movements is that there are at least two layers of population: one indigenous population (who may or may not provide a substrate in the new language) and a ruling population, which may be temporary (e.g. the Goths in Ukraine). When I did my master thesis I discovered that the southern fourth of France never became Celtic. The place names are almost exclusively Pre-Indo-European with a few scattered Celtic names here and there. The Indo-Europeanization mostly arrived with the Romans. Later I discovered that this was already known among French historical linguists.--Wiglaf 14:07, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What do you think, the Celts article is a bit long already, maybe we should put the detailed maps on History of the Celts or similar?

It may be a good idea.--Wiglaf 14:07, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

cat throwing weapons

Shorthand for category, as you probably noticed :-) Thought I would not be surprised if somebody, somewhere would have developed "hand-held feline projectile ejectors" or something like that 8-)- Skysmith 06:32, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

ROTFLOL @dab

"Technocratic triumphalism", lol @dab! (Yes, I do suffer from IRC poisoning.) --Bish|Bosh 15:05, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Lombards

Hi Dab, I'd like your opinion on this. There is a user User:Zinnmann, who wants to make Lombardic language a West Germanic language. AFAIK, the mainstream categorization is East Germanic and the language is only known from a few scattered words. See also Talk:Lombardic language.--Wiglaf 08:10, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nice work! :)--Wiglaf 09:14, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Back

I'm back.--198 04:43, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

re: Congrats

Thanks Dab. Was very happy to see Tamil language featured on Tamil new year. It generated quite a buzz even in non-wikipedians. -- Sundar (talk · contributions) 04:19, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

Old Norse

Dear Dab, I'd really like your take on this. Carmosin/Peter Isotalo wants to redefine Old Norse according to its narrowest possible sense (literary Icelandic) and rename it all. I'd be very grateful if you'd like to help out.--Wiglaf 06:25, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Dab, :). If you want me to meddle with the Macedonian part, just ask.--Wiglaf 09:40, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Damnit! Experienced users like yourselves should really have a better sense of good faith! I've obviously not tried to make edits before discussing and I've only tried to ask for confirmation of the current terminology. I do not want to redefine anything and I've not even tried to be bold. Just calm down, present whatever sources you have and try not to be so darned defensive. If you check out the discussion at Swedish language, Swedish phonology and Standard Swedish, you'll probably understand why I'm extremely skeptical of any claim to validity that is not based on proper sources. Peter Isotalo 10:22, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Peter, if you had had some good faith or bothered to do some googling before you barged in like an inquisition with phrases such as Seems to me as if we'll have to redifine this article a tad, we would never have had this discussion. Now, I have had to do the googling for you. I am sorry I brought Dab into this.--Wiglaf 17:52, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

RE: User:Ken Bogan

Hi, dab, I hope you're doing well. In answer to your question: You mistook me for an administrator, but I am not one; thus, I did not issue the block against KB (though, as the editor principally involved in the investigation, I did inform him of the block), and I do agree with you that, within reason, some due process is in order, as futile as it may in all likelihood be, as a matter of sound policy. Heh, you know, I took one glance at his talk page and all troll-bait alarm bells started ringing. I will support an unblocking for the purpose of an RFC, but unless it's ready in 45 minutes or so, I will not be able to certify it for a day or so (will be out of town). I hold no strong opinion as to the immediate deletion of the picture and blanking of user space. While I obviously am against any identity theft in general, there's certainly a greater element of disruption when it involves the impersonation of a convicted & wanted sex offender. Please see my response on my talk page, which pretty much repeats what I said here. All the best, El_C 19:51, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)